132. Bravo divorces with Michelle Dempsey-Multack; Martha Stewart doc; What does narcissist even mean anymore?

Michelle Dempsey-Multack is back on the pod to talk about all of the chaotic Bravo divorce situations, starting with Teddi Mellencamp Arroyave. Dubai is on pause – good reminder for all of us Bravo fans to be careful what we call boring. Michelle, a Miami resident, shares a story about meeting Nicole from RHOM and bumping in to Alexia frequently. And we talk about the Martha Stewart documentary. Martha’s a baddie. We go on a bit of a tangent about the word “narcissist” – what it actually means, and why it’s overused. Last but not least, while we’re enjoying Real Housewives of New York City, we’ve got a real issue with pregnancy pranks. They’re not funny. 

Welcome to cocktails and gossip, the podcast where we drink cocktails, but you better believe we’re going to spill the tea. We chat reality TV celebrity blinds and the hottest tea from Bravo and cocktails.com and as always, it’s all alleged. And just for fun, we do not verify our blinds. I’m B and
I’m Amanda. Let’s get into this week’s tea. You
What’s up? Cocktails, we have a really special treat, because there are just too many bad marriages and custody wars going on in Bravo that we had to have our girl, Michelle Dempsey, join us.
Yeah, they call on me for the marital issues we
do. We need you. This is as close to a Bravo emergency as we get. Hi cocktailers, hi B Hi Michelle, you so we’ve had you on the show before. Michelle is a certified divorce and co parenting specialist, Best Selling Author, which I read your book and took so much away from it when I was going through my own divorce. Educator. You’re an educator for divorce coaches and a top podcaster known for the ability to inspire and empower moms through divorce and co parenting journeys. So welcome, Michelle.
Thank you. Thank you so much for having me back. I’m not as caught up on all my shows as you guys are, but always happy to
gossip. That’s all right. And, oh, I forgot to tell you guys that Michelle is a very busy, lazy so we will have her for a portion of the podcast. She’s gonna have to hop at a certain point. So we just wanted to let you guys know that we’ll keep going. We’ll just lose Michelle at a certain point, but yes, Michelle, we will fill you in on all of these messy marriages and divorces if you’re not caught up, okay, where do you want to start be? So
Teddy’s recent divorce announcement is everywhere. Yeah, and you couldn’t have missed it if you’ve opened your Instagram right in the last two weeks, I have, yeah. So we discussed in cocktail party, the rumors and also on last week’s pod, so without even getting into because some say she cheated. Some say he cheated, that he’s been cheating. The consensus is they’ve their marriage has been in trouble for a long time. Some even say pre pre dating her being on the housewives all those years ago, really, that’s no word.
Once she wasn’t on Beverly Hills anymore, which is by far and away my favorite franchise, I was just okay, no love, no loss. She was out of sight, out of mind. I wasn’t paying attention. And then the only thing that I thought, because I really again, even when she was on the show, I didn’t pay much attention to her, honestly, was Wow. How funny. Her best ages got divorced too.
Oh yeah, separated because we know that Kyle and Mauricio have still not actually filed.
You know what I mean, it’s monkey, see, monkey do I don’t know, hmm, or maybe, you know, listen, I don’t know Teddy from a hole in the wall, but I do know that the general perception has been that she’s maybe a little up Kyle’s ass. And I think when we do have a really close friend, we are up each other’s asses, and that’s fine, but maybe Kyle split gave Teddy the permission. It’s really scary to do. So maybe it gave her the permission to say, okay, you know what? My good friend did this. She’s seemingly adjusting. Well, maybe I
can do it too and do read as well. Was monkey, see monkey, but, yeah, but I think the writing
was on the wall there. Again, we haven’t seen Teddy and what’s happening. But frankly, if my husband treated me the way PK treated to read after that home invasion, I would have kicked him out immediately, if not sooner it
was and I generally like PK, his behavior was bizarre, and it always led me to believe, although I have no proof of it, it always led me to believe that the rumor that he planned that for insurance purposes were true. I think that maybe dorit wasn’t supposed to be home from London, or whatever it was, yet, and somehow wires got crossed. I don’t think he intended for his wife and children to be there when it happened, but I think he had some knowledge of it, because it’s almost like he didn’t treat it like it was real. Because I guess you can be so uncaring that it doesn’t phase you that your wife and your children live through a home invasion with gun to head, but that would be sociopathic, and he doesn’t seem,
yeah, be associated. I don’t know that. I don’t buy that, but I will 100% put money on the fact that he was at a space with her where he had almost zero room for her feelings and emotions. And it very well could have been because he was already so tied into somebody else’s
Oh, I also though wonder a question for you, because I have seen this going on in just the world around me about just divorce in general, and middle age and midlife crisis. It definitely seems always make a joke out of it, but I always say I used to think midlife crisis is where something that really only happened to people in movies, and then you get into your 40s and you’re like, oh, wait, no, they’re real. Do you think that? Do you see that is that something that is not just something that I’ve noticed from my own life, but that midlife crisis and divorce tends to come in clusters, and often happens. Listen,
I equals 40s. I am now about to be 41 and I can say with sincerity, I don’t believe that what we look at as a midlife crisis when someone just starts acting totally out of pocket, or they’re driving a sports car, or maybe it’s Kyle hanging out with whatever her name is, and everyone’s thinking now she’s a lesbian. What I think happens at a certain point, it’s not so much a midlife crisis. I think we all get to an age where we’re like, fuck. I am so sick of being who everyone else wants me to be. I’ve been playing by the rules. I’ve been Little Miss Perfect or little Mr. Whatever, for however long I needed to be, and I I know who I am now, and I just want to live that truth. I think that is often mixed in with the term midlife crisis, because nobody knows how to process or handle when the person they are close to, or the the person that they think is one way becomes something totally different. And I think because of my work in helping people through divorce and also in school to be a therapist, I’ve gotten to an age where I’m like, oh, okay, I understand so much about myself now, and I really have changed how I show up to people, for people who I’ll let in my life, and it it could be also be viewed as that. So I don’t think it’s a midlife crisis. I really do think it’s people coming to a part of their lives where they realized, maybe they chose the person that’s good on paper, but good on paper doesn’t really work for them, or maybe they followed a traditional marriage, heterosexual path, because that’s what you’re supposed to do in your family. And then they realize, Oh my God, I’ve only got so many good years left in my life. That’s not who I really am. It’s a good point. I
can see that. And I think things happen in people’s lives too, whether it’s losing a parent, getting sick, overcoming an illness, right? There are like these pivotal moments. I know for me, losing my mom was a really pivotal moment, absolutely, and it was obviously the grief, but outside of the grief, it was a moment where I have one brother, so I became the matriarch of the family, even like my father, my brother, who’s older than me, because my mother was very strong and like a powerful person, and I had to assume that, and it changes who you are as a person. Thankfully, it didn’t affect my marriage. I am very fortunate that my husband is very supportive, and was so supportive when my mom passed, but it changed me in other ways. I do. I hear what you’re saying. I don’t. I didn’t have the patience to be a little miss, whatever or what people’s expectations. It was like I have real fish to fry. Now, you grow up quick, and there are things that I was 38 years old, by the way, so I was a grown up and a mother and a wife, but chronological age, there’s pivotal moments in your life where things change, and real quick you change. And we don’t know the intricacies of Teddy because she hasn’t been we feel like we know her because of the podcast, but clearly not because we’ve heard a lot, but they have three children. Different.
And speaking of I thought it was really interesting that Teddy’s filing requested full custody of all three kids. One of them is baby dove, who is only I know, two or three years old. And I have always wondered with divorce filings, especially with celebrities, if filing for full custody of the kids is a tactic, or if it’s something that maybe the parents agreed to before the filing was made,
the number one thing I see when people split up is even the most checked out and worst of dads, when shit hits the fan and the marriage is ending, the one thing they want to take control of is their time with the kids. So I could not see for any reason, why he would just hand over full custody. If we’re talking about full custody or custodial rights, it’s two different things. Full custody means that they are not spending any time with their dad. Custodial rights and who the custodial parent is for legal purposes. That’s something totally different. Usually, a custodial parent is chosen by name for legal purposes, because that’s who files the taxes and the who makes the school decisions and everything like that. But if she is filing to not give him any custody, it’s one of two things. One, he’s done something horrendous that she feels makes him unsafe to be around the kids. Maybe it’s drugs or drinking, that’s usually what I see. Again. I know nothing about them and don’t keep up with following them. But the other thing is just a very brutal and mean tactic in court to intimidate, and that would be really unfortunate, because when there is a custody battle, when there doesn’t need to be one, the only people that suffer are the children
I’m reading in People Magazine right now, because I actually I didn’t remember if you had said or if I didn’t remember if it was full custody or custodial rights, to your point, so I pulled that up, and it does look like Edwin has asked for joint physical and legal custody. So that’s even more interesting.
Yeah, joint physical custody is what I would imagine, unless there was some really deep, dark skeleton, right? Unless
he’s unsafe, if she listen. And a sad reality is there are women who have to do that for the safety of their child, and who, in some cases, stay married because they don’t want their baby to be alone in a house with its
percent? I see it all the time. No, but I think she may. It could be that she filed for sole legal custody, which is very different from physical custody. And right?
That means I’m the primary for school. Yes, I’m the primary for the doctor, which, let’s face it, most of us moms are the primary for those things. So most dads, although I’m sure you see it, Michelle, where all of a sudden the dads, oh no, I want to be at every school meeting and whatever. Oh yeah,
I see it all. Trust me, very interesting. Okay, I am curious. If you are a summer house fan. I am not a summer house. Okay, do you happen to know who Lindsay Hubbard is? I do. I know all the chips, but I just don’t. Okay, that’s because all my friends are like, how could you not be watching
Okay, one car you should catch up. It is such a good show. So we had Lindsay, who has been an OG on the show. She was engaged to Carl. They broke up their engagement, and within probably six months or so, she met this man who, apparently she had met or dated in the past, rekindled and got pregnant. They are still dating, but he does not live with her. We see on her social media that she has prepared the second bedroom in her apartment that she used to share with Carl. The second bedroom is going to be the baby’s nursery, and she has said that the boyfriend, I forget his name, will keep his apartment and Lindsay and the baby will stay in her
apartment. That sounds nice, in theory. I just is that the legal outcome or this is just like what they’ve discussed? So we
hear that she’s gonna mention on the show that he doesn’t plan to move in, and even from following her on socials, it seems put it to this way, he’s not living with her, and the plan is that he’s not going to move in. On the surface, to me, and I need your expert opinion, it seems a little odd. They were in a very new relationship when they got pregnant, but they’re still dating. She refers to him as her boyfriend every time she posts a story, she doesn’t show him because he’s very private, but you’re currently boyfriend and girlfriend, I assume he’ll stay over here and there. But if you’re in a committed relationship, as she is presenting, why would your steady boyfriend and the father of your children maintain a separate residence and plan to stay there? Why wouldn’t he. Move in with you. You know, prudent decision, I
feel like the only way I could look at it is from like through the lens of everything happened very quickly, and as untraditional as it may seem to the outside world, maybe she’s pulling back and she’s I’m a traditionalist, and we can’t live together until we’re married. But I don’t think it could I get the vibe
it’s him. I don’t know why. Obviously, I haven’t spoke with her about it, just based on what I’ve heard. And it just seems like
or something went down, and they need to work their way back towards where they initially were, and the way they’re doing that is by living separately for now in
a situation like that, obviously we, none of us, have any knowledge of what’s actually going on in this situation. But do you hear about parents drawing up a legal custody agreement before the baby is born? I just wonder if there. I know we’re talking a lot about custody, but I just think it’s really interesting when there is a situation like this, they’re having the baby, they’re still dating, so everything is good now, but sometimes people have prenups, people have other agreements like that. Is this something that you’ve heard of?
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I have only because when people have an unplanned pregnancy and there isn’t a marriage, a lot of people aren’t smart enough to do this, but having a plan for if the relationship doesn’t work out, because you’re you can still, quote, unquote, share custody as unmarried people. It’s just harder down the line, because then they’ll have to establish paternity. So I think if they’re doing this up front, it’s it’s almost like an insurance policy on if they split up, they don’t really have to go through a formal divorce or go through the court system because they have an agreement already, but it is not in the child’s best interest to have an agreement on the child’s living situation and how the child’s needs will be met when they don’t even know the child yet and can’t speak to the needs of this child. So it seems a little upside down to me, but
I so assuming that his name is on the birth certificate, does that not prove paternity. It
does not prove paternity, at least not in Florida, your name can be on the birth certificate, but you still have to file to prove paternity. That’s interesting, very interesting. But every state is different, so don’t quote me on that on a national basis, like I have a good friend here who had a son with someone, and they are not together. And I tell him all the time, you better they have a somewhat of an amicable, like working relationship, where they share the child. But I’m like, he’s sort of signed the sign the birth certificate. I’m like, doesn’t matter, like you need to establish paternity, or you don’t have any rights to that child. Wow. Scary. It is very scary. And what
if the mother is, no, I don’t want to, like, I guess so. Okay, so what if he’s not on the burst? Let’s just say I am having a relationship. I end up pregnant. A guy that I slept with within the time says, Oh, that’s my baby. And I say, No, it’s not go away. Can he go to court and make me prove paternity? Like, how does he prove that we had a sexual relationship?
Oh, yeah, paternity can be proved in court, and that’s why people go to court for it, for sure, there’s blood tests, there’s all sorts of things.
So anyone requesting that, but he would have to somehow prove, like, show text, like any old person can’t claim it, and then you have to go do a blood test. Do you know what I’m saying? I don’t know what the actual legal part of it is, but
I love that we’re making Michelle a lawyer. Now, I feel like you think I’m way smarter than I am. No, I only know so much about this stuff because I have worked with both married and unmarried parents who are finding ways to share the kids, and also, my husband’s a family court judge, and I hear about these things all the time. Oh, I
didn’t know that part. I
did know that part. I didn’t even know he was family court judge, but I knew that he was
our whole life. He was a lawyer our whole life. Is divorced, yeah, it’s wild. Yeah, it is wild. So switching gears
a little bit. This week, we got the news that Real Housewives of Dubai is officially on pause. I know I you guys have heard me talk about it. I really enjoyed the second season, so I was really bummed to hear about this. What do you guys think? I don’t know, Michelle, if you watch it, but will you guys miss Dubai again?
It’s not my go to I’m like, old school. And I’m like, I started with housewives 14 years ago, or whenever it started 15 years ago. I liked it for it’s like glitz and glam, but it was on another level of unrelatable for me, Dubai. Oh yeah, yeah. First
season, I didn’t love it. Second season, I did enjoy it. There was such a lapse, though, between the first and the second that I found myself not remembering who was friends with who the reason for the canceling seems pretty obvious, but low ratings, low viewers. I got a lot of questions regarding Caroline Stanberry because there was an announcement made that they are filming Real Housewives of London. Everyone wants to know if she’ll be on it. What I was told is that she likely won’t be more than a guest if she’s on it, because for a full time role, the confessionals would be a problem. She does live in Dubai, right? But this person said, bravo, loves her, wants to keep her in the family, so maybe she would do a below deck or a weekend at Dorinda, because we know that Dorinda has a show that’s going to be at the blue stone. And
love that. Could you I want to go
right? She was also supposed to film this is interesting for a week on Miami last season, but there was like a flight visa situation, and she wasn’t able to make it to the States because apparently this is random to me. I don’t know if you guys know this. Caroline Stansbury is tight with Larsa. Why?
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don’t know about that. I mean,
did you see Did you watch trader? For those of you that all I need to know,
for those of you that don’t know, Michelle lives in South Florida. So Michelle, I live
in South Florida. I see a lot to Miami, a lot. I live in Miami. Before Alexia and Todd split up, I would see her all the time. We lived in the same town. It’s Miami’s not a big place, and Lars is not hanging with the creme de la creme. It
just watching traders. When Larsa was on it, they all, everybody bowed down to her. And I never understood, I don’t
understand, you know, the way she treated Gertie when Gertie was not well, was enough for me, like, I’m sorry i No, yeah, 100%
I do have to say, Guys, be careful when you complain about shows, about Bravo shows being boring, like we hear people say about New York, because then, you know, Bravo could cancel them and leave us with nothing in nothing to replace it. Yeah,
that’s bad stuff. I want to, I want to tell you guys something I haven’t I’m not fresh on New York, and I’m planning on binging these next couple of days because I’m finally going on a girls trip. But people keep telling me I sound like Aaron,
do I? Is that true? Listen, Michelle, don’t we all sound alike like okay, people tell me I sound like any Jewish or Italian New Yorker. I’ve gotten Jill, zaron, next, next people will say that you sound like me. I’ve gotten Aaron. It’s like people. Do you remember when everyone thought I was you and you were me? Yes. So when I first started my account, a friend of mine, Stone Cold daddy, who Amanda knows is Insta friends with Michelle, so he would share her stuff, and I loved her stuff. Started following her, and we would she, she likes Bravo. So we would share each other’s stuff. And then people were DMing me, like, by the way, I know it’s you Michelle, and I’m like, and in my head, I’m like, good. I don’t know who Michelle is, because I wasn’t putting the pieces together. I don’t know who Michelle is, but if you want to think I’m Michelle, who lives in South also, I have a condo in South Florida. You’re originally from New York. So I guess if you wanted to, like, Listen, if you saw me and Michelle standing next to each other, it’s not out of the question. Guys,
there are you are both beautiful, successful, sassy, originally New Yorkers, but I don’t think you guys sound that much alike at all. I do, Michelle, think I hear a similar similarity in tone, in the tone of your voice when it comes to Aaron, but no, I don’t think you guys sound this okay.
I know nothing about her. I just wanted to know if that was a bad thing. Oh,
I like her a lot. I don’t think it’s a good or a bad I think it’s probably a good
I think it’s a good thing. Yeah, I love Aaron. People find Erin to be a bitch, but I think that you’ll like Erin because you and I, Michelle, are similar, where New Yorkers, people always say that New Yorkers aren’t nice, but they’re kind or is it the reverse? We aren’t like, yes, we’re just no bullshit. I’m not gonna fluff up anything, but I’m a kind person. I’m not a mean person. And Erin is, like that. Erin’s a little full of herself, but she’s beautiful, she’s successful. I don’t even know full of herself is the right word. She’s a confident woman. And unfortunately, in the world we live in. When you’re a confident woman, you got to deal with it. I’m sure we spoke about it last week. I’m sure you watched the Martha Stewart, oh
my god, I could talk about that on 17 podcasts back to back. But she’s a narcissist
and she’s a bitch, but like, when men do it’s like they’re wonderful, but when a woman does it, they put her in freaking jail. I don’t
think, I don’t think Martha Stewart’s a narcissist. Yes. Oh, okay, let’s go. I think so I’m very against the way the internet has labeled anybody with a difficult personality or anyone who pisses you off as a narcissist. I agree with you and the divorce I was just having. There are many shameful accounts who hang their hats on that word, just to get followers, because if I can make you feel like you’re the victim and your ex is terrible, then yes, he’s a narcissist and you didn’t do anything wrong. It is so horrible. Judges and lawyers all over the country are so sick of it. Nobody wants to hear it anymore, that being said, you can be a bitch and you can have selfish needs without being a narcissist. What a true narcissist is. So far from Martha just being a difficult, bitchy woman and okay, not for nothing. Thank you for her explanation, her bitchiness and her self assuredness and her knowing who she is and who she’s not. It was so refreshing to me because we don’t get to be like that as women without being labeled crazy bitchy or like you guys, are saying narcissist,
okay, so I agree with you. And I think my thing with narcissist is it means so many different things to so many different people, but it
is a is a psychological personality disorder that can only be diagnosed by a side D or a PhD, and you’ve got everybody in their mother deciding, oh my god, he acted like a selfish asshole in the divorce. It’s because he’s a narcissist. We all exhibit narcissistic qualities for survival reasons and when our egos are bruised at divorces.
But let me ask you this about the Martha documentary, because, for example, she admits that on her honeymoon, she made out with a beautiful Italian man, and brushes it off and says, No, it wasn’t infidelity, and she has an affair with the Irishman, who is very handsome, but says, oh, but no. Andy didn’t know about that.
I will say two wrongs don’t make a right. But I think she absolutely did it because she was so brushed aside in her own marriage, and I think she knew even at on the honeymoon, that this wasn’t someone who really gave a shit about her and had her best interests at heart. And so I think she definitely is someone who takes matters into her own hands, and she’s not going to be left in the dust. I do see a lot of women who get cheated on in their marriages and stay start to do their own thing, because, you know what, they’ve got needs too. It doesn’t make it right. I’m not saying it makes it right, but Teddy, allegedly, that is what my perception of her behavior was. Hmm, don’t
you think it’s interesting, ladies, the juxtaposition of somebody like Martha, who is so self assured, who can run a billion dollar company, has all of these things and then marries a man who doesn’t appreciate her. Do you think there when you’re a woman of that stature, do you almost think that Martha said to herself, no man will ever be able to handle
it? Is it is textbook, repeating a cycle of her childhood. Her dad didn’t give a shit about her. She said that it was like nothing she did was good enough, so she went and married the same kind of man. That’s what we all do.
But yeah, she also said she was his favorite, like he was a miserable fuck, but
the general perception of like, his sense of being was like, you might be my favorite, but I’m still gonna treat you like everything you do is wrong and not good enough. You still have to work to earn my love.
I thought it was interesting too that the boyfriend that she dated for quite a long time after her divorce, who was a Tech Tech, and I can’t remember which technology that he ended up just ending the relationship saying I’m getting married to somebody else. Yeah,
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Yeah, I imagine her aloofness is also a part of her relationships. Yeah,
that’s her account of it. Listen, I loved it. I loved Martha. I don’t I agree with what you said, and I find myself doing it now, which I always say. It’s so annoying how people use the word, but it is so easy just to use it instead of saying she’s a strong Yeah, because there are so many, unless you are a pushover, I would say we all have narcissistic qualities. Like anybody with a podcast, anyone who thinks people want to listen to what the hell they have to say has a narcissistic quality.
That’s exactly we all carry narcissistic traits, and we need them in some ways, right? Like you need them in order vanity and caring about what you look like, and that’s a part of existing in the world. Part of survival, that’s part of relationships, and it’s when you have a severe lack of empathy, and you are not aware of how your behavior affects others, and you do not care how your behavior affects others. Like narcissism is like the cousin to sociopathy, and yes, a sociopath is somebody like a serial killer, and we’ve watered down the meaning of what narcissistic personality disorder is, and I think I get so annoyed about it, because I actually knew somebody with real NPD and was abused at the hands of this person. And you don’t know what a narcissist is until you are really in a situation with one mine was my father, unfortunately. And it’s, you know, the guy who’s fighting with you and can’t stop being high conflict. He’s not a narcissist. That is something totally different. And usually when people come to me and they’re like, my lawyer said my ex is the biggest narcissist they’ve ever seen, and then I get to know that client, there’s two people, baby, that made this mess. It’s never just the one very true guys.
If you haven’t watched the Martha documentary, it’s on Netflix. It’s not one of those, like 10 part documentaries. It’s a movie. It’s, I think, an hour and 45 minutes long. And it’s, even if you weren’t a Martha Stewart fan, it is, which I always have been. It was, I thought it was fascinating all three of us. You know, what
was the most interesting part to me was seeing how rejected she was in the early part of her career, like she was too perfect. And it’s like, it made me think, like, damn, everybody expects perfection from a woman, but then when you are perfect, everybody hates you for it. I think that’s why I connected with it so much like, I’m not out here saying I want to be her best friend, and I feel like I’d be like I’d be scared to be friends with her, frankly, but just the way she has made it through so many challenges and battles and still maintains that she deserves to be successful and is confident, I think that’s amazing
I do too. And I can remember, like, when I was little and seeing Martha Stewart, and I remember the jokes about her, like, I vaguely remember how everyone Oh, perfect, like Martha Stewart. And then what a big deal it was when she went to jail, because people were like, Martha Stewart misperfection. Like people were like, celebratory about it. It was just another example of people sucking, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I didn’t listen. I was too young to be interested in, like, her dinner parties and all those things, so I never really had that with her. And then by the time I was interested, she was like, doing stuff with Snoop. And I’m like, how cool is this? How cool is this? I know, and also, like, I another thing admire, like, how I love when Martha puts up a thirst trap, like she has such a good facelift. Send me your doctor. I probably can’t afford them, but I’ll save up. I do want to get back to Miami, because you live there. So I need to know, we know that Nicole is not on this season. Initially, I think Nicole took a step back from the show planned to film. That’s what I had heard. And then they brought on the X of Anthony. So Anthony was in a relationship with this woman, Stephanie. I didn’t write down her last name. She’s married to a very wealthy guy. Apparently, she broke up that guy’s marriage. She’s a beautiful woman. She has like, a look like Nicole. Yeah, you know Stephanie, have you seen her in the flesh, in the wild?
Have I Yes, she came to my book signing. It was what a nice Stephanie did. Oh, no, not Stephanie, Oh, I thought you meant Nicole. Sorry. No, not Stephanie,
oh, Nicole. Tell us about Nicole. We love Nicole. We’re gonna I’m so sad she’s not on. I love her. I love her
too. But I actually think there were time I think, having met her in person and chatted with her and stuff. And I don’t say this with any disrespect. She’s got a life full of like she worked really hard to become an anesthesiologist. She is just a different quality of woman. And sometimes I would see the drama on that show and I’d be like, Damn girl, you’re so far above this that there was a moment on the show where they said something about, what did they say about her being a mother? But it was really shameful. And some of the Bravo, some of the Bravo accounts started like Larsa said something. What did she say about her? What was that thing that she said? Oh, you put people to sleep? No, it was like, real early on, whatever the point is. Some of the Bravo accounts like, were applauding Larsa for that.
Oh, when she was saying that she is an unmarried mother, or Yes, child
out of wedlock, that’s what
it child out of wedlock, yeah, I was
like, if you guys only knew, like, how hard working and committed this woman is to her family. Anyway. The point being is she is so lovely and well spoken and intelligent and classy in person. And she came to my book signing, which was such a nice surprise. It was like early on in her housewives days. And this was like early 2022, and, yeah, she’s just a beautiful soul. She’s not my girlfriend. We don’t hang out, but good hearted, kind person. When you meet one, she didn’t come. So take a picture. She brought racing. I have a picture with him. Like, just a good human.
You always wonder, when you have somebody like her who clearly doesn’t need it, why they do it? Because she also, in her first season, had a deal with them, like shaming her for getting divorced before she met Anthony. Remember they were like, Oh, and you divorced your first husband because he was a teacher. Number one, there’s no way they could know that. They have no knowledge. As she knew she was going to be a doctor, she knew he was a teacher. So I don’t think she woke up one day and said, You know what? I just realized he’s a teacher, so I’m going to divorce him. So yeah, I think she dealt with a lot, and I do believe that there was talk of the Stephanie girl coming on, and I think her only saving grace was her father was a real character, and it allowed her for a storyline that was a little bit divergent from her and her fiance, Anthony. And so I think when he passed and she had the second baby, I think she said to herself, what we just said? I don’t Yes, I’m an anesthesiologist. I now a mother of two, like these women are coming for me, and now they might bring on Anthony’s ex piece.
Yeah, I agree. I think she really, she did what she could to like hang on there. I think she knew right away that like that, she was far above whatever this was. And you could say that for a lot of people on the show who stick with it, but I’m proud of her for making that decision,
even though it’s bad for us, because I miss her, I think it was the right decision. Todd and Alexia, you mentioned living in the same neighborhood as this, on and off marriage. Now. They both have adult children, but we know that Frankie is disabled, and change is hard for him, and it’s like, very upsetting. What is? What are your feelings?
My heart aches for her. I think she’s had a and I’m not a person that’s Oh, either you’re lucky or you’re not. I think she’s had really bad luck in relationships. I think she is a lover, and I think and I can relate to this, because I’m also like, oh my god, if it feels good, do it when sometimes you get into things and you’re in over your head before you see whether or not they’re good for you. But the way he treated her children, I just it was so old, like as a co parent, as a step parent, okay, maybe her son is difficult. Okay, what’s whatever his name is, the older one to pin your partner against their own child and basically say them or me, that is just red flag numero uno,
and especially because and he’s like, he’s a 12 year old that he can step in as a parent figure and help him through a struggle. He doesn’t live with them. He’s an adult. What Todd, in my opinion, should have done was mind his freaking business, minimize the time he sees him if he doesn’t agree with his life choices, but he is an adult. Do you know what I’m saying? Like he’s her adult child who doesn’t live under their Yeah, yeah. So it’s really very little of his business, and if it bothers you that much, and he not only wasn’t nice to them, he was very judgmental and unkind about her parents.
Yeah. And there’s a reason why second marriages end in divorce at a much higher rate. In this case, I think it was her third marriage. But there’s a reason why these marriages end more frequently than first marriages, and it’s because of the children and differences in parenting. And unfortunately, these are things like, when my husband and I got married, our daughters were two different ages, and we had to really work to establish what was going to be allowable and permissible by either of us for the children based on what they’re used to and how they’ve been parented up until this point, like these are difficult and hard conversations that a lot of people forget to have up front I don’t know if that’s why they divorced or not, but I can say that my heart breaks for her. I think they’re
off and on still, like they’ve been off and on throughout the course. I now they’re filming, and I hear that they at one point, I heard they were back together. They were spotted. I was sent pictures, and then I heard that they’re not together. I did see she’s living in a house it looks like, yeah,
I for her sake, I hope they can work it out, and he can be the person she deserves, because she really is another very kind human. I see her. She is what she is on TV with Frankie. She is in real life. She is with him everywhere. I see her everywhere. I see her at the mall with him. I see her walking. We all walk this one path in Aventura. She walks a circle with him, like she is. She dedicates her life and soul to that boy, and she doesn’t have to. She could have a nanny. She could have an aide for him. She is right, a good another good egg. Deer
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Hello. Thank you, Angela, we have to break up. Up. But why? Because you’re a robot and I’m just a guy trying to get better internet. It’s
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Do you think that could be part of why the marriage may be struggling, that there is a, not necessarily feeling of jealousy, but lack of understanding on Yeah, I
think it is that. And I don’t know if this is why, but I see it all the time, where when someone is in a new marriage, and that one of the partners, their child, takes up a lot of the time, or is has more needs than someone else’s children. I see it putting a really big strain on the relationship, but I’m sorry, my friend, you knew what you were signing up for, and I think that the way, that’s what I was gonna say, not like the way a person loves a child, is indicative of how they’re going to love you, like the space in their heart. And so I would hope not that would be terrible. Maybe
this is what your next book should be about. I’ve heard that parenting, and
I’m sure you hear all about it, knowing that you have
stay tuned. So we’re working on filming people. Oh,
love it. That’s exciting. How much longer
I got it. I had to go five minutes ago, but I’ll say one more love you. I’ll say one more minute. Okay,
Lisa and Lenny’s insane. Oh, do you see Lisa and or Lenny around?
I’ve actually never seen either one of them. I’ve heard horror. I think we’ve talked about this before, about people who have gone for like, consults at Lenny’s office. He said, Yes. And the lawsuits just keep coming. And also now that, allegedly, now that he broke up with the mistress, it’s like, obviously a karma, but
they’re supposedly back together. But I think that may have just been for her to go to
the Halloween party. Who knows, but their parties, I’ve had friends who have gone to their parties, and they’ve always been, everyone’s hooking up with everybody. Like, it’s not like they were both angels, but again, he’s a dick, and I will stand by that he is a dick.
Thank you so much. Thanks, guys. This was fun, and we love chat. All right. Bye, bye. Okay, guys, so now it’s just back to me and Amanda. I feel like
we let’s, should we talk New York or Potomac New York? Because people are mad at Yeah, I can imagine. So let me see her. Let me think so. The show we’re recording actually today on a Wednesday. So this popped up last night. The last episode was essentially about a big prank where Aaron was trying to and Rebecca were trying to set up Brynn to show that she really is a blabber with a whole fake situation. Okay, fine, but which is
funny, because Erin is a huge blabber too, which is why part of me believed it, because I could see Erin just telling everybody that.
But when a joke, when the prank is about pregnancy. I think that is where it just becomes uncool.
First of all, you’re in a group of women. Jessel has been very vocal, and she actually said it at the Dodge Bowl last night, because people were like, Why don’t you just get pregnant? She was like, I’m not sure what you guys don’t understand. I can’t just get pregnant. I had to do IVF, and if I want to have another child, I may need to use a surrogate. I find the callousness of it shocking, because in my own life, I find that people my age, first of all, these women are all in their late 30s, early 40s, right? So many women that age have trouble conceiving, yes, and the fact that they’re so flippant about joking how Rebecca and her husbands are swingers. Now, to be honest, the audience doesn’t know Rebecca at all because we haven’t seen anything. So I don’t think we found that part shocking. I found myself Googling, and I’m like, okay, she’s 44 years old at this point. I think she’s 43 or 44 she just turned up pregnant from a one night stand, totally a possibility. And then finding out it was a joke, which I think we all realized was, to me, a slap in the face to Jessel. And I wonder if we’re gonna see Jessel say anything, because so few she has. I think I would say, can you guys, like, even when they would, like, just get pregnant, and she had to say to them, I needed IVF, I can’t just get pregnant. Do you know what I mean? I know I’m careful when speaking to people like, I even have a friend who has one child. I have several friends. I would never say to those people unless they offered the information to me, which has happened, where they’re like, We only wanted one or we weren’t able to get pregnant again. Whatever it is, I have never, and I think that, like years ago, it’s a question that people would flippantly ask, like, how come you never had another one? I would never say that to somebody now. No,
I wouldn’t either, and I will say I have just flipping through my memories of almost more friends than didn’t had to use IVF or IUI or some something to help them get pregnant. I have had many friends have pregnancy loss. I have cried with friends as they were struggling with getting pregnant. It’s just not something that’s funny to joke about, in my opinion, that
is the huge consensus. The other consensus is that this was such a produced thing, and people are all ready. And I agree with you, Amanda, be careful to complain about shows, because then they’ll be gone. And I am enjoying New York. People say it’s boring. I don’t feel that way, like I love watching them go to restaurants and hearing about their lives. And to me, all of the women are interesting, and I don’t think they need these stupid pranks. I think they’re trying to hook the audience with something like this, and I think it is going to have the opposite effect.
We had that piece of tea that came in said, one of the one of the New York, New York wives, has been, you know, sending late night emails and trying to over produce. And I think we’re seeing that right before our eyes. I can’t figure out which one it is, still, though
people think it’s Brynn and the cocktails are usually better at guessing this than we
are. Yeah, they are. And then,
in other news, Erin and Abe just announced they’re expecting their fourth child. This is something that was, like, I hinted at it a little bit. I didn’t say who, but it was known. And if you’re, if you follow Erin, and you’ve been following her the last few weeks, her style of dress, I just was like, Oh, that room was definitely true, like, in my head, because she has a gorgeous figure that she’s always wearing, like, mid drifts and all see through and all that. And she definitely was wearing, like, loose blazers. And it has not been chilly in New York until just this week, they announced they’re having their fourth child we’ve spoke about, and anyone who’s watching that they had some major issues in their marriage. Abe not being honest about his finances, selling Bitcoin. So many people are sending me. Apparently bitcoin is doing really well. Yes,
it’s, I keep my husband keeps, like, looking, oh my gosh, now it’s over 90 every day. It’s the other thing is, it gets over 80 and, yeah, anyway, I don’t know much they hate Bitcoin, but Yes, apparently it’s going crazy.
I’m very happy for them. And I there was a scene last night, and I know that you were catching up on all your shows, so I don’t know if you saw this scene, but there was a scene last night where Abe and Aaron went out to eat with Mel and Raquel, who, by the way, loving Raquel, loving Mel. And this is why, when people say it’s boring, I’m like, what exactly is boring? Raquel’s life could not be more interesting. And
also, by the way, which is it? Which we want? Because people say, I don’t want people screaming at each other all the time. I don’t want drink throwing all the time. And then we see a show that has a little bit more subtlety to it, and it’s not just about fighting, and it’s about New York and the subtleties of women’s friendships, and they’re saying it’s boring, it’s okay, guys, which is it. And
a couple episodes ago, we saw into size life when she went to her upstate home, and her aunt was there, and they did her mother’s ashes. And then we saw into Erin and Abe’s life. And we’ve seen into Jessel and pop it’s life. They’re giving us everything. And Raquel
is going through the situation with her mother where her mother isn’t seemingly very accepting of her relationship. And I don’t know if it’s I don’t think it’s just Mel. I think it’s of her being a lesbian, and that, to me is I find that very interesting to hear more about. And she’s so open about sharing that,
and what I saw last night, which I really It made me so happy, and it was on the heels of Erin announced during the day, and then the episode came out during the day that she was pregnant, and they went out to dinner, and the energy between Aaron and Abe is so loving, and like their body language, like the way she just leans into him, And it made me feel good, because marriages are complicated and people are complicated, and I think it’s so easy to take that one scene about Bitcoin and be like, Oh, they’re in trouble. And then seeing them together, it’s like they are very in tune. They were very in tune with each other. And it was actually really cool, because Abe, they were joking. They were like. We, let’s go on a date. Mel and Raquel called Aaron. And Aaron was like, Yes, let’s go on a date. And they were like, yeah, we’ll go to a gay bar, like, whatever. Laughing. And they’re like, Yeah, bring Gabe. Like, they accidentally put gay and Abe together. So then they were like, hey, Gabe. And he was like, I’ll go by Gabe. And then in a confessional, Abe goes, You know what? I’ve actually never kissed a guy. He’s bought there are moments, like when I was in college where, like, I was, I don’t know if I was tempted. I considered it. I think it’s normal to, like, think of all things, and in my head, I was like, What a cool guy. So few men would be willing to share that. And I’m not saying every straight man, or I don’t know that he identifies as straight. I’m assuming he does. He’s married to a woman, but I just feel like it’s something that isn’t typical for a guy to admit to
the honesty from them both, how much they’ve shared this season about their marriage, about and him saying that I completely agree,
and I find the New York husbands. In the case of Abe and pavid, I find them really on board, which, and we’ll get to Salt Lake City. But like when you look at Salt Lake City and you look at someone like browen and Todd, Todd is not on board.
I’m sorry, justice for Todd. I was like freaking Finally, there is a husband who’s standing up for his wife and saying, Look, I understand that. So for those of you guys who haven’t watched, they go on a couples weekend to celebrate Todd and Bronwyn 10th anniversary. And Todd is very no nonsense. And of course, he he knows what Bronwyn has signed up for that. It’s a show where women fight a lot, but he is not this weekend, and I think he handled he was definitely a little cranky about it, but I’m like, good for you that you’re like, No, we’re not gonna do that this weekend if Lisa wants to continue. And he said it, I thought pretty nicely to John, just if she wants to continue on with the stroma, you guys have to leave. Yeah, I like
it was a little cranky, but something important to recognize. And this is information that if you search around, you can find, and thank you to the cocktail or who sent it to me? According to some online research, Todd is an executive Senior Vice President at HP for 10 years. I assume that’s Hewlett Packard, the person said it’s an insanely powerful role. I work for a competitor in tech and that level, no non the personalities are no nonsense, aggressive, my way, kind of personalities. And they all leave with a boatload of stock. They go into private equity. I can’t imagine a single one of my EVPs putting themselves on television in this way. And so what I think is, yeah, he agreed to it, and I think that he knew that the audience would see that Bronwyn has enough substance and she’s interesting enough that after this season, he’s not going to be on any trip with any of them, if he’s at one of their parties or mixers, he’s going to be in the cut, probably barely socializing with the husbands. And if he is, it’s going to be like, You know what I’m saying? There’ll be no argument, still.
Yeah, matchinella was doing the same thing, yes. And that just he was over in the other room, and he was like, Wait, what’s going on? I have just been hiding over in this other room. Yeah. And then
we would see Matt and Katie film their scenes together. So I think we’ll see Todd with bro, when in the kitchen, maybe the two of them out to lunch with Gwen. And I don’t even think he’s gonna want her retelling the stories. I think that Gwen will serve that role. She’s an adult, so mom can vent to Gwen. I think Todd’s gonna be like, you want this good for you, enjoy it, you’ll make great TV. You’re a smart, interesting woman, which she is, and she reads them. And I have to tell you, what are your thoughts on how she reads Heather, because I have mixed feelings with Heather. I do like her. There is something about her that is vulnerable and in need of love and all of that. Okay, yeah. But I also think she’s messy, and she’s sloppy, and I like that, bro, when’s calling her out. I really do. I did.
It’s interesting, because I’ve always been a I’ve been from day one a heather fan. I did not like the way that she seemed to start to catch an ego that sounds bad. That’s not what I mean, but that’s what you mean. No, it is what you mean. She catch an ego
because she got him, like, humble to, like, on the shit real quick. But like, never was really confident in that on the shit, and always had to pull strings with other people. You know what I mean, like, how she operates like that,
not on Martha Stewart, right? Where Martha says, No, I am a perfectionist. This is the way that I am. But Heather, I agree. It’s like she almost makes moves and then questions herself, but then stands behind, I’m the shit, right? The uncertainty may be behind that, and just almost the I just. Service kind of I don’t want to make it sound like I’m nailing on Heather too hard, but I do think Bronwyn has made some very good points in that Heather. I don’t know if she’s necessarily calling out Heather for Heather having the personality that Heather has, or if she’s calling Heather out for playing the housewife game too much, but she’s definitely calling her out, and I think she’s got good points. I would love to have seen more of what really happened with the Heather and Bronwyn fight at Heather’s or at Bronwyn house, because I didn’t feel like I really got enough to take a side on that one.
Yeah, yeah, they were gonna stand off, and Bronwyn did come in hard. She I guess there is a feeling, okay, so it’s if I’m a sophomore in college, and I’ve already pledged the sorority and I’m in, and the freshman thinks they’re just gonna, I do think that maybe Bronwyn could have Heather expected her to rush the sorority like kiss the ring a little bit.
Yeah? Would? Yeah, exactly. I never
was in a sorority. I’m not a person who would kiss a ring either, but I do think that when it’s like, if you started a job like the person been there a little bit longer, you should defer to a little bit it show some respect until you’re comfortable in the spot. Does that make
sense without? Yes, without, without jeopardizing your own self worth or doing anything that would go against your your values as a human Absolutely. And I think you’re right in that. I think Heather’s whoa, hold on. This is you’re coming in really hard, like somebody who is a veteran, versus maybe a little bit more subtlety from you would be more appropriate, which I would understand that as well. Cocktailers,
we love you for listening. I did want to announce that, believe it or not, we are this month celebrating two years of cocktail party, which is our subscription site, which you guys know is more than just an extra podcast. It’s a discord. It’s a monthly zoom, which will be next Wednesday the 20th, at 7pm Eastern Time. And in celebration of our two year anniversary, we are running a sale for you. Get the first two months for $5 with code happy. Two years eight, $5 per month, $5 per month. Yes, just normally it’s 750 and then obviously every month after that will be 750 Yes, it is for new members only. So a lot of you guys say, when you having a sale, this is our Anniversary Sale. This is as good as it’s gonna get. Yeah, two months, first month five, second month five. And if you’ve been curious and wanting to check it out, we always say we have cocktails. Who when the shows they like are airing, they sign up and then they don’t. We also do have gifts. Amanda, what do they do for the gifts? All
you do is just go to bra, bone, cocktails.com/join,
and then the gift. So we only gift the annual membership, because it’s for a lot of reasons that I won’t bore you guys with. It’s not really possible to do the monthly gift unless you’re essentially giving somebody or it’s just messy. So we only gift the annual. But the great thing about the annual is you get a deal on that, just even without a sale, because we discount that so that it’s less than 750 per month. So it’s all you have to do a full year, correct? So it makes a wonderful gift for Christmas for the other people in your lives. And yeah, to bees point, we literally sometimes too, have people who join and they’re like, I don’t trust myself to remember to quit if I’m not sure that I don’t love it. So they literally join, and then they cancel the same day. So you get the same you get the full month, right? So if you sign up, join
on November 1, you have access to everything until December 1,
yeah. And what’s really funny is that I end up getting emails from people like throughout that, like, I wasn’t sure if I was gonna like it, and then so I canceled it the day that I signed up, and now I want to join it again. How do I do that? And we, like, we get a ton of email. Usually,
they just got the annual they’re like, You know what, let me save the money, because I’m gonna end up spending more. And you can always DM me any of those questions. Yeah, but
we love you. Now, I always say, like the door is always open. We understand people come in and out a cocktail party for whatever reason, and we’re always just happy to have you 100% Oh, do we say what the code was? The code for the sale is happy two years. So happy the number two and then y, E, A, R, S, if. You do want to get the Anniversary Sale
till next time. Guys Bye,